Nick Neuman - Head of Product for Casa Node

In this episode, Nick Neuman joins me to discuss Casa Node. We also discuss some of their new products and services, such as Keymaster and Sats App. Nick is the Head of Product for Casa Node.

Nick Neuman
--- Twitter: https://twitter.com/Nneuman
--- Website: https://keys.casa/

Transcription

Brandon Zemp  0:00  
How's it going guys? It is Wednesday, September 11. Today on the podcast Nick Newman head of product for Casa note joins me to discuss Casa node, key master and SATs app a couple other projects that they are very excited about, we go into quite a bit of technical detail. 

So if you aren't familiar with cos, and node key master or SAT SAP, definitely listen to this podcast more than once. 

As always be sure to subscribe if you have not already, I'm sure you have and share this episode with somebody that you think would like to learn more about blockchain. Enjoy.

This is the BlockHash podcast.

So to start it off, why don't you tell the audience what your role is at Casa note so they can get familiar with you.

Nick Neuman  0:50  
So my name is Nick. And I'm the head of product at Casa which basically means that I am overseeing all of our products and making sure that everything we build takes into account what our customers are wanting, and just trying to make the best possible product for, for our users as possible. 

And so I get to work with our engineers and our designers, and see kind of across the organization, how the products are evolving, and make sure that everything is going according to how we have planned it to. And so I get to work with a great team that is extremely talented. So I'm super lucky in that respect.

Brandon Zemp  1:39  
How long have you been there?

Nick Neuman  1:40  
Yeah, so I've been with casa, a little over a year and a half. Now. Casa was started in its current form a couple years ago, and I was the sixth person to join. And so since then, we've grown significantly, it's been, we've added a lot of awesome team members. And that that's been really great to see and be part of

Brandon Zemp  2:05  
very cool. So I know a lot of people are familiar with the cost of note itself, they've seen it on social media, they've seen it on online quite a bit and some very interesting product that you guys have, can you kind of explain like what it is and how it works?

Nick Neuman  2:22  
Sure. So the original idea behind the cost of node was that running a full node on the Bitcoin network and on the lightning network are parts of Bitcoin that are crucial to its core principles. 

And we saw that really to, to run a full Bitcoin or lightning node, you needed to have some sort of technical expertise, so that you could use the command line and mess with all the various configurations that are needed to get it set up properly. 

And so we saw that there was a large group of people that weren't technical, but really wanted to help support Bitcoin. 

And so really, the idea for the cost of node was to give people an easy plug and play way that they can be running a Bitcoin node and a lightning node to support both of those networks. 

And the benefit of that, in addition to just supporting the networks was that it was really the first very easy to use user interface for the lightning network. And so before that, it was really purely just command line usage for running a lightning node and making lightning payments. 

And so this brought the lightning network to a lot of people who previously were really interested in it, but didn't have access to it. 

So that that was the main idea behind the node. And it's been really cool to see the different types of people that have bought a node and that use it and give us great feedback, I think we've really had a an awesome community build up around the Casa know that we're super excited about and thankful for.

Brandon Zemp  4:22  
Yeah, there's definitely a community that's starting to build up around it. And the whole lightning network features really cool too, because that's also got quite a large following. And definitely presents all kinds of opportunities for Bitcoin with the cost of node, since it's a full node, correct?

Unknown Speaker  4:38  
Yeah, it is. It's a it's a full Bitcoin node and a full lightning node.

Brandon Zemp  4:42  
Okay, so because it's a full node doesn't need to be running constantly, or is it something you just plug it in when you want to use it?

Unknown Speaker  4:50  
Yeah, so it doesn't need to be running constantly. And, and that was a big consideration with the hardware that we chose for the node and the form factor on, we wanted it to be something that was low power, so it didn't take a lot of electricity usage to be running. 

Nick Neuman  5:09  
And is small enough to just be tucked away kind of in maybe a shelf on your office or on your desk. But it does need to be running all the time. Because basically, it's always constantly processing, Bitcoin blocks, and then updates to the lightning network. 

And so this was a big, this was a big problem with the light running a lightning node before because it needed to be online all the time. And so there were a few apps that were out there and trying to give people a way to access the lightning network. 

But because of the nature of a mobile phone, it's not online all the time, you know, when it's asleep in your pocket, it can't be all mine and processing, lightning network updates and transactions. 

And so, for example, you couldn't you couldn't ever receive funds, because you need to be online to receive funds. 

And so in order to get around that these mobile apps would say, well, you can, you can send funds, because we know you're taking an action, you're online sending those funds, but you can't receive them because you have to be online to receive it. 

So with the cost of node, we gave people an easy way to have this device be online all the time, and not really sucking up a lot of their attention, but they're still able to take full advantage of all the features of lightning.

Brandon Zemp  6:40  
Right? Makes sense? Does it run any slower? Since it's a full node? Or is it pretty responsive?

Unknown Speaker  6:47  
Now, I mean, the it's actually, from the Bitcoin side, it's very low resources to be running a full node, you know, it, it initially uses lot of resources as it's sinking the chain. 

Nick Neuman  7:03  
But once it gets up to the current tip of the chain, it really just needs to process one block every 10 minutes or so. 

And so that's pretty low overhead. On the lightning side, there's a little bit more overhead in terms of computing power that it has to use, because it's keeping track of updates with the peers that you're connected to. 

And the general what's called the graph of the lightning network, which is essentially a map of all of the nodes on the lightning network. 

So there's a little bit more there that it it does keep track of but in general, the fact that it's a full node really doesn't affect it significantly over if it was a, like a light client SPV wallet or something that was using somebody who's using over Bitcoin. Right, gotcha.

Brandon Zemp  8:03  
And another interesting thought that I had when I was kind of reviewing Costco before coming on the podcast. 

And I know a few other people are kind of taking a look at doing some more stuff as well. But with the lightning network, it feels like you could like have your cost of node running, and then the software pull up and then within the software, 

have different lightning network channels that go to different retailers or online gaming, or, or whatever that allow you to like directly purchase like through Casa note, is that something that you guys have considered at some point, or that you got a direction you guys might go?

Unknown Speaker  8:42  
Yeah, so it at this point, it's really up to the users who they want to open channels with. The idea of the lightning network is that basically, anybody can open up a payment channel with any other node. And that allows them to instantly pay that person directly. 

Nick Neuman  9:04  
Or they can route a payment through that person. And it'll do what's called hopping through different nodes in the network to get to the end person that they're trying to pay. 

So for example, we have a, we have the cost of store, which we set up to allow people to test out making payments and buy Little things like stickers, or, you know, like some Satoshi dice, that kind of thing. And so what people can do is they can open a channel directly with our store, or they can attempt to route through the network. 

And they just go to our website, and they'll, you know, decide what they want to buy just like any normal ecommerce website, and we'll give them a lightning invoice which they can pay with their node. And then that payment can, if they are sufficiently connected to the network, that payment can be confirmed instantly. 

And then they're they're finished, just like they would be with the credit card. Whereas with maybe a Bitcoin transaction, they would have to wait 1020 minutes in order for it to the transaction to get confirmed. 

And so that's something that we've, we've set up and I know that there's some other stores out there, like blockstream has a store. 

There's some online gaming sites, like you said, like there's a lightning roulette site, there's, there's quite a few businesses that have popped up that are still seem kind of like toys, but they really show you where the future could go with the lightning network. 

And it's totally up to our users if they want to connect with those people and take advantage of of their services. And so that's something that we've really tried to give people the choice around doing. But it's totally possible. Is that

Brandon Zemp  11:06  
something that the user would set up? Or that the user would have to request to have setup? So like if a certain retailer was allowing you to buy pizza through the lightning network? 

Would the user have to set that up through Casa note? Or would they have to like or group of users submit that to Casa note, if they wanted to go like through your guys's platform? Like what would be the process behind that?

Unknown Speaker  11:32  
Yeah, so it's, it's completely doable without without going through any sort of approval with Casa And anyway, so there is actually a great site, which maybe you're referring to called LN pizza. 

Nick Neuman  11:48  
And they let you buy Domino's Pizza through the lightning network. And so essentially, what a user would do, in order to do that, to buy pizza through them, they would they, they have two options, the first option is they can open a channel from their node directly to the LN Pizza node. 

And so LN Pizza has on their site, you can go on there and find a connection code from them that they have pretty prominently displayed on their on their site. And all you do is copy that code and then paste it into your Casa node, when in the open channel form. 

And so then they will, what that does is it sends a on chain Bitcoin transaction, which deposits, whatever amount of funds that the user chose when they were opening the channel. And once that transaction is confirmed, they'll have an open channel with lightning pizza. 

And then they can use that channel to pay them for pizza whenever they want. So it's totally up to each individual who they want to open channels with in order to make payments. And they don't have to go through their costs in any way. It's fully supported in the UI.

Brandon Zemp  13:11  
Okay, very cool. Yeah, there's a lot of potential around lightning network, as you probably know, as well. And it's very exciting to see all the different partnerships that come out of that, and all the things that people are putting together, whether it's retailers or users.

Unknown Speaker  13:25  
Yeah, and the interesting thing with the, with the lightning network is just that, like a lot of what the network success relies on is a lot of individuals running lightning nodes. 

Nick Neuman  13:40  
Because the more individuals that are running lightning nodes, the more likely you are to be able to successfully route a payment without being directly connected to somebody, right. 

And so like the network itself will not succeed, in my opinion, if everybody has to open a direct channel with every single person that they're paying, it really is based on the fact that kind of the six degrees of separation, 

like after you get a certain number of channels open to other nodes that are well connected, you should be able to pay anybody in the network, because you can find a route through my connection, go into your connection, go into your friends connection, which then goes to the very end person that you're actually trying to pay. 

And so with Casa nodes, we think that giving people a really easy way to get a node up and running is one of the most critical things that we can do to help support the the lightning network and help it grow.

Brandon Zemp  14:45  
Yeah, absolutely. So I mean, basically, it's just hopping from node to node and taking like, like the fastest route to get to that, to that end point, correct?

Unknown Speaker  14:55  
Yeah. So you can actually, you can do some customization around that. So you can say, I want to take the fastest route possible. 

Nick Neuman  15:05  
Or you can say I want to take the cheapest route possible, because each node can set fees that it wants to charge for routing through. 

So for example, if I, if I want to charge 10, Satoshi, which is a denomination of Bitcoin, and you're charging one Satoshi, somebody who is connected to both of us may route through you instead, because you're going to cost them less money to make this payment. 

So that's something that you can customize when you are setting up your node. 

And that just allows you to choose Do you want to go with the fastest route? Or the cheapest route? Or something in the middle?

Brandon Zemp  15:45  
If so, if you're running one of these nodes, and you have a, you're connected on a channel with somebody that other people like to use this relatively popular? Are you able to charge a fee for them to run run through your node? Or is it just completely decentralized process?

Unknown Speaker  16:05  
Now you're, you're actually charging them a fee. So okay, so let's say you and I are connected, and you want to route through me, like rata payment through meet somebody else, I can charge you a fee of my choice for you to do that. But the trade off is kind of a supply and demand thing. 

Nick Neuman  16:26  
So if you're also connected to other people that would provide a route to that your final destination, and they're cheaper than I am to route through, then your node will likely not choose to actually route through me. 

So it's kind of finding a balance of what do you actually, what can you get away with charging to where you make the amount of money that you're hoping to, but you're actually still having transactions routed through you? Right, I'm at, in in the process. 

So that's something that right now, honestly, almost everybody has extremely low fees on the lightning network, because there isn't enough usage yet. 

To really be messing around with your fees. There are some node providers that are some of the larger routing nodes on the network, like, LN big is one of them. And I know that that person or team adjust the fees that it costs to route through them. 

And, and they actually have posted some really cool articles about talking about how much money they've made, which is not very much right now. 

But it does, it has an analysis of here's how much fees we were charging, here's how many transactions rerouted and, and they've done a few of these. 

So you can kind of look over time as they tweak different things to see what they've actually been successful with. So that's, that's pretty cool to see. And I think it'll become an as the network grows, it'll become a bigger business to actually be routing transactions like this. 

So yeah, that that's something that that will come in the future, I think, but will be pretty cool. What it does,

Brandon Zemp  18:13  
yeah, I could definitely see a lot of people that are in mining, and they're in staking jump ship to degree to do something like this, especially if they had a bunch of nodes. 

And they were reliable enough and had them all connected, and they had valuable pathways for someone to use. Like it seems like a really interesting way for someone to middle extra cash, while also supporting the network. And obviously lightning networks growing pretty fast as it is already. 

And it's really scalable to for Bitcoin, like, do you know how many transactions per second that you can get up to with Bitcoin using the lightning network?

Unknown Speaker  18:47  
I don't I mean, it's a lot because essentially, with the way without going too deep into it, the way that lightning payments work is there nearly instant. And they, you know, sometimes it takes a little bit longer, like I've had to take 30 seconds or a minute before for it to find a route. 

Nick Neuman  19:11  
But if it finds a route quickly, which it does, most of the time, it's less than five seconds for the payment to be completed. 

And so if you think about over time, as that network grows, and more nodes are on the network, more people are using it, since all of these payment channels don't rely on each other. 

In order to confirm a payment, you can have a huge amount of of payments per minute or second or whatever metric you want to judge it by purely because of of how the network is built. 

And the reason that is different than Bitcoin is for Bitcoin, there's, you know, one block being processed every 10 minutes. 

And that block has a limited number of transactions in it. But like I said, with each of these payment channels, since they are all separate from each other and just between two parties, there can be a limitless number of of transactions happening at the same time.

Brandon Zemp  20:16  
Yeah, it sounds like a complete game changer. From everything I've heard and from what you're talking about with, with Bitcoin definitely like elevates, like bitcoins game in terms of how it can compete with legacy payment methods and even the current ones we have in crypto as well. 

So it's Yeah, that's all really, really cool. Let's go ahead and pivot though to two key master. I know that's something you guys want to talk about a bit more. What is key Master? Exactly,

Unknown Speaker  20:43  
yeah, so key master is a, it's similar to like a bitcoin wallet that you would have on your phone. But we'd like to say that it's a key manager or than a wallet. 

Nick Neuman  20:55  
And really, what it allows you to do is it gives you an easy way to use multi SIG, to store your Bitcoin. So what multi SIG means is that, in order to send a transaction from

Unknown Speaker  21:13  
your Bitcoin key set, you need to approve it from multiple different devices. So like in a normal bitcoin wallet, for example, let's say I'm using bread wallet on my phone, when I want to send a transaction, I just say in the phone, I just tap it and say send to this person. And then it goes. 

Nick Neuman  21:36  
So if somebody were to steal your phone and have access to your pin, or maybe you don't even have a pin on there, they can easily steal your Bitcoin with key master. Whenever you go to send a transaction, we actually so let's say you're using our key shield, which is three or three, we have five multi CIG, that means you have five total keys. 

And to send a transaction, you have to sign it with at least three of those keys. So want each of those keys is a different device. So one of them is held on your phone, three of them are held on a mix of treasures and Ledger's. 

And then one is held by Casa as an emergency key. So I'm going to send a transaction from my my key shield wallet, and I sign it with my mobile phone first. And then I'm going to get an email that says, hey, please sign with your second device. 

So I'll plug in my Tresor to my computer and use our nice web UI that's really easy, you just press a couple buttons, approve it on your treasure, and then it's signed. And so what then you do it with one more device after that. 

And what that allows you to do is it allows you to spread these devices out to different locations. So let's say you're keeping one, you have your mobile phone with you, and then maybe you keep one device at your house and one at your office and then one in a bank safe. 

So if somebody were to try and steal, steal your phone or attack you in person and try and force you to send Bitcoin to them, they would actually have to take you to multiple different locations in order to have you approve that transaction, which significantly increases the risk for them as an attacker to the point where we think it makes it basically impossible for them to force you to send them funds. 

So that's the main idea behind key master is that it's a much more secure way of storing your Bitcoin long term. So we like to think of it like a savings account for your Bitcoin. 

And then maybe you have a checking account to which is just your just your single signature mobile key that's also available in the app. 

And that's for the funds that you may want to send, you know, a couple times a week, or you just want to have ready to make a payment, that kind of thing. So that was that was really the the idea behind key master and, and what we what we set out to build with it. 

And it's the other idea behind it was that we wanted to get rid of seed phrases. And so we think seed phrases are, are one of the biggest barriers to adoption of Bitcoin that exists, period. 

Because when you set up your Bitcoin wallet, if you don't, if you aren't familiar with Bitcoin, you're suddenly given these 24 words that you got to write down, keep safe somewhere, and you're not supposed to put it in a password manager or in a document on your computer, you're supposed to write it on a piece of paper and make sure that doesn't get lost. 

And the amount of Bitcoin that has been lost due to losing a seed phrase that was on a piece of paper is crazy. 

I think it's, you know, it's in the millions of Bitcoin, not millions of dollars, but millions of bitcoins. And so when people can't even keep track of the password to their email, how are they going to keep track of this huge 24 word seed phrase. 

So with key Master, we actually tell people, you do not need to keep the seed prices. Because let's say you lose one of your devices, you lose one of your treasures, that's part of your your multi CIG, if you were just using that treasure, what you would have to do is get your seed trays out, get a new Tresor, and restore the wallet using that seed phrase. 

With key Master, what you do is instead of restoring that key, you actually just swap it out for a new one. And then lose use the other keys and in that key set to

transfer the funds to the newly newly whole wallet or key set that you that you just made by swapping in a new device. So that completely eliminate seed phrases for people. And we think that that is a big step forward and usability for the ecosystem as a whole.

Brandon Zemp  26:35  
Yeah, I'm key masters definitely seems like something's very innovative. And there's obviously a lot going on in space regarding multi SIG, because it does definitely offers a lot of advantages and some disadvantages in some scenarios. But it's far better than seed phrases. 

Like I've had some awful stories with seed phrases. Like I had a ledger at one point where I didn't have a lot of money on the ledger. But I had some and I was trying to access it and I locked myself out. So I couldn't remember the pin for whatever reason, or I put in the pin wrong too many times. 

And then I had read the seed phrase out. And I discovered that my seed phrase was wrong. And I had to add to go through and figure out what words important, most likely that I spelled wrong. 

And then I had to guess, luckily, I guessed one of the words right and was able to get back into it. But it freaks you out. Like especially when you're trying to get on paper, you

Unknown Speaker  27:35  
got really lucky there.

Brandon Zemp  27:38  
And with ledger and the one I love ledger, they're fantastic company. But the one thing I hate the most is the fact that I have to write down my seed phrase. 

And human error is responsible for the fact that technology is so damn slow and so damn bad. Sometimes human error ruins all kinds of things, why am I having to write it down like it, it's just be something that is just printed off, or we should have a better process. The whole thing scares the crap.

Unknown Speaker  28:05  
Sometimes it is it is very scary. And that's one of the things that we were, we were thinking about when we were first creating key master was people are terrified, especially people that have a large amount of Bitcoin are terrified of, oh my god, if I lose this seed phrase, and then something happens, or I forget my pain, all that Bitcoin is just lost forever. 

Nick Neuman  28:31  
And so we really set out to build something that completely eliminated those seed phrases. So that, you know, when you're setting up your treasure to use or your ledger to use with key Master, you literally click through the seed phrase. 

And sometimes you have to write it down because like ledger, for example, makes you confirm what it was. But then we tell people don't even think keep the piece paper burn it up. Because it's just an attack vector at that point, because you You do not need it with with multi SIG. 

So that's something that that I think a lot of people appreciate after they hear about it, but maybe they don't first realize it when they when they think about multi CIG and how it can benefit. There's their personal Bitcoin security.

Brandon Zemp  29:24  
And multi CIG is interesting because it's not that one person can have more security over their, their address, and their funds. 

But you could also have split ownership, in some cases, maybe for the benefit of a company or something that has definitely ownership breakdown, or corporate board or something like that. And they're splitting control of certain assets, or whatever the case may be.

Unknown Speaker  29:51  
Yeah, and we've seen, we've seen some of our customers that our teams at maybe crypto funds using this, we've seen some of our customers that split their keys among their family members. So there's quite a few different ways that you can use it. 

Nick Neuman  30:12  
And we we were actually working on a team signing feature that makes it really easy for you to use it with the team and have different people that are owning the different keys. 

And so that's going to be something that I think will be will be really cool to to make it easier for teams to store their Bitcoin and also to have a little bit of governance built in around sending payments, whenever they need to do that just to make sure that it's not just one person who has that control.

Brandon Zemp  30:44  
Have you guys looked at the potential legality of having split ownership through something like key Master, where it doesn't happen very often, usually, but where you have maybe an address controlled by two different people, one of those people, individuals does something they shouldn't be doing, and they get in trouble. 

And then you have some court demanding that funds be released, but the other person who also owns the address or the wallet doesn't do anything wrong. 

And then assuming Casa has like an emergency key? How would they respond to that? Like, is that something you guys have like, kind of looked into as it can get, as it will probably get more complicated in the future, like from a legal perspective, at least?

Unknown Speaker  31:35  
Yeah, so we thought about that. And basically, the so the good thing about the Casa key is that it's only one of the five keys, so they would need to other keys signing in order to do anything with the funds. And we we really saw that kind of takes away our ability to, to control anybody's funds completely. 

Nick Neuman  32:02  
And so then the, as far as the you know, in a court action, or somebody has to has been ordered to move their funds. I mean, the idea behind this being a secure, non custodial system is that nobody can really force you to move the funds if you don't want to. 

And so if they have somebody else on there, who owns or holds some of their keys to their wallet, unless the government can figure out how to force all of those people to approve a transaction where they're trying to seize funds, it's not going to happen. 

And so we think that that I mean, that's that's one of the core principles of Bitcoin is that, you know, if you own your own keys, and you're managing your keys, your Bitcoin is not sizable, through some government action unless they come and physically, like interfere with your setup or whatever. So they have to come actually interact with you in person. 

Whereas with the banking system, for example, the government can send an order to JPMorgan Chase that says, freeze all of this person's cash in their account. And that's it, it's done, you can't access it. So that's something that I think we we have thought about it. 

And the nice thing is that with the way the system is set up, it's something that doesn't have a ton of legal liability falling back on casa, or legal risk final on some of our users.

Brandon Zemp  33:40  
Yeah, well, the Masters awesome, regardless of whether it generates legal issues in the future or not. It definitely provides awesome solution, great alternative to, to seed phrases into better security for funds and whatnot. And so yeah, definitely looking to keep a close eye on key master. 

And I know before the party, you also mentioned something called SATs app. And I'm not sure if I've seen it or not before. But what is that's up?

Unknown Speaker  34:09  
Yeah, so SATs app is a really new product that we just released. And we announced it a few weeks ago. And it's been in a semi private beta that you can apply for online just by filling out a form and then we'll send you an invite in one of our invite waves. 

Nick Neuman  34:29  
So basically, what SATs app is, is a way to control your Casa node, from your phone from anywhere. So this is actually a surprisingly difficult networking problem as far as securely allowing people to control a device and connect to a device that is inside their home network from outside their home network. 

And so what we did was we actually used the Tor network, which has encryption built into it by default, to make it really easy for people to connect and control their node without giving away information, like their password or their payments, anything like that to the open Internet. And so the SATs app is a way to use lightning on the go. 

And then the second part of it is SATs back rewards, which are something that we haven't quite given out a lot of info about. 

But essentially what it'll be is a is the ability to earn rewards and get paid for supporting the Bitcoin network and for using lightning to make payments in general. And so there isn't a whole lot more I can say about that. 

Except for that the first method for earning setback that will be releasing is that you can earn 20,000 setback points, which can be if you want converted into actual stats for just for connecting your note to the SATs app. So that's, that's that's kind of in a nutshell. 

And we're really excited about it, it's a really easy way for, for people to be using their node and eventually, to be just making Bitcoin and lightning payments. 

In general, it's like if you've ever used the cache app, that was a lot of we took a lot of inspiration from the cache app for this. Or it's just super easy to send payments to friends using the app. So yeah, it's something that we we just released and we're excited about.

Brandon Zemp  36:56  
Yeah, sounds really cool. I think the only thing I'm worried about is like someone getting in the middle, when you're trying to connect from your SATs app to like your home network where your costs are notice? Well, so

Unknown Speaker  37:07  
that's the that's the beauty of using Tor. Because with the way that tour is built, it has layers of encryption. 

Nick Neuman  37:16  
So it's actually kind of similar to the lightning network in that you there's Tor nodes, and you hop through different Tor nodes to connect to, to your node, your lightning node, Casa note at the end, and it's called it's Tor actually stands for the onion relay network, I believe. 

And it's, it's compared to an onion, because at each hapa that it's doing in the network, it adds a new layer of encryption. 

And so the very first person that you're connecting with, doesn't even know like, what you are sending out the network because you've added your layer of encryption on it. And then they add another layer of encryption, which gets passed on to the next person. 

And so the it's actually very hard to man in the middle attack it because of the way that the Tor network is built. And that's why we wanted to use Tor to allow people to connect to their nodes remotely.

Brandon Zemp  38:24  
Okay, yeah, that's, that's good to know. Would that be able to connect to other Casa nodes that might be closer by then your own home network?

Unknown Speaker  38:35  
No. So the the way that it works is that each node gets its own. Each Casa node gets its own individual, Tor, onion address. And that Tor onion addresses like a big to big string of numbers and letters that is impossible to guess, basically. 

Nick Neuman  38:58  
And so the, what we lets you do is you have to enter that into the SATs app in order to connect to your node. And so it's basically impossible to guess in somebody else's onion address for their node. Until you really, there's not any opportunity for you to connect to like a node that's closer to you or anything like that. 

But we try to make it easy for people to enter their their onion address, you can just scan a QR code on your Casa note interface, and then it automatically does all the work for you in the in the background. 

So yeah, that's that's kind of why Tor was an interesting use case for this that really I don't think has been has been done before around this specific type of interaction between a phone and a node.

Brandon Zemp  39:48  
Yeah, it sounds really interesting. I'm definitely going to have to check that out. But have you guys launched that yet? Or is it still kind of being developed?

Unknown Speaker  39:56  
So we've launched a beta version of it, and you can apply for the beta? If you just go to our Twitter, we've been tweeting about it. 

Nick Neuman  40:06  
And then we started a, a new Twitter handle for under SATs app, I believe. I can check that. Yeah, we started a new Twitter handle under app SATs app. And so you can check that out. And we have the blog posts linked on there that was announcing it. 

And we also have the beta signup form. And so once you sign up for the beta, it's best to use right now if you actually have a cost of node, but once you sign up for the beta we can, we'll send you an invite, and good to go from there. Cool.

Brandon Zemp  40:43  
Yeah, I'll definitely have to check that out. So before we wrap up, are there anything? Or is there anything that you wanted to talk about? Or bring up that you guys are doing it costs? Or do you guys have any roadmap updates that people should be aware of? Ernie or anything important going on?

Unknown Speaker  40:59  
Yeah, so I think the most interesting things coming up or around right now around the sad tap just working on some of those stats, back rewards that we're going to be announcing in the next week or two. And there's some there's some really cool stuff that we're doing there that I'm I'm very excited to to announce. 

Nick Neuman  41:19  
And I think just in general, what I would say about Casa is that we're really trying to build a business that gives people the tools to be sovereign and secure with Bitcoin and with other aspects of their life. 

And so I think that you know, people who are looking for that in a way that is easy to use, and intuitive and well designed and then well made on the engineering side would be really interested in checking out some of our our products like the like the node or like key master. 

And so our website's www.keys.casa, and yeah, we've got a lot of info on there that for people to check out. So I think that's it. Awesome.

Brandon Zemp  42:15  
Yeah, I love what you guys are doing at Casa and you guys are going to do a lot of good for a lot of people and obviously for Bitcoin and helping and grow and scale and get more attention making it easier for users. 

Um, so yeah, I love what you guys are doing. And Nick, thanks for coming on. Really appreciate you taking the time.

Nick Neuman  42:32  
Yeah, thank you very much. 

Brandon Zemp  42:34  
Alright. See ya.